It’s time to leave Afghanistan. In fact it’s time to leave most of the Middle-East. We tried folks. We tried to help them. We tried to free them. But the plane facts are they aren’t ready for freedom. They aren’t worth our lives and money. We won the war in 2002 when we removed the Taliban and killed most of Al-Qaida. Small amounts of Special Operations Forces could have been left in strategic locations to periodically take out AQ as they popped up. Afghanistan could have been allowed to succeed or fail on their own. An individual concept we’ve forgotten here in the US also.
The only reason I can see for any continued action is the resurgence of Al-Qaida. But since we are unwilling to cross into Pakistan where the remnants of Al-Qaida and the Taliban hide we cannot win. Hell we aren’t even in that fight. That’s not to take away from what our military and the allies are doing. They are busting their collective asses to build a better place and kill the bad guys. Trust me folks they are killing a lot of them. But we will never allow enough of them to be killed to win. It’s not that we can’t win a war with the Taliban it’s that we can’t win the peace. To many don’t want peace. They take pride in their ability to suffer and endure. We can’t reason with them, we can’t buy them for more than a day or two and they don’t want our way of life in any significant numbers yet to make a difference.
The Karzai government is so damn corrupt it’s probably not salvageable. We put him in place and of course that appears to have been the wrong choice. Once again we’ve proven we aren’t very good at this foreign affairs game. Then again, he probably just see’s the writing on the wall.
Humanitarian support? Well I’m afraid the last ten years have taken most of my humanitarian feelings away. Ask the families of those UN personal that were attacked because of a Koran burning weeks ago about humanitarian efforts if its worth it. Ask the military families sending their very best, America and it’s allies best, to lands that continually turn on us.
Perhaps some parts of the world are like diseases that just need to burn themselves out. Quarantine them and save the rest of the planet. The current medicine is just prolonging the pain and misery and allowing the virus to spread.
| Kabul, Afghanistan – Foreigners have been killed in Afghanistan before, and today’s attack was not the first fatal attack on UN staff. But it was different than previous fatal attacks. Very different. The killers were ordinary residents of a city deemed peaceful enough to be one of the first places transferred to the control of Afghan security forces. The men who broke into the UN compound, set fires and killed eight people weren’t Taliban, or henchmen of a brutal warlord, or members of a criminal gang. They weren’t even armed when the protests began –they took weapons from the UN guards who were their first victims…Una Moore |
Have I flip flopped on my support for the war? I don’t think so. In fact if my approach to that war was taken I’d continue support. But you can’t half-ass a war. You can’t half-ass nation building. To do either you must over-take the nation completely and rebuild from scratch, which we are unwilling to do. That would hurt too many feelings. Why, we might affect their culture and we sure wouldn’t want to disrupt that wonderful philosophy of love and peace they have.
It’s time to leave. The modern narrative is that no one has been able to conquer Afghanistan. I say BS. Alexander took it, and the British took it three times. The fact is there wasn’t any reason to keep it. It wasn’t worth the blood. The people aren’t worth it. It may have once been a crossroads from east to west but that time has long since passed. It is a modern wasteland. It is a waste in resources, a waste in time and a waste of people. Fear not friends these types of cultures won’t win. They are fighting themselves as much as anyone else. It is the west that continues to allow them to live. Lets pull the life support.
Hell all the smart Afghans left years ago. Now all the smart Americans should also.
Update: Blackfive.net, That’s for the link. The comments on your and my site are interesting.
Jb's Sanctuary 
Well said. Couldn’t agree more. My oldest son is in A-stan flying Blawkhawks. He’s coming to that same conclusion. His guys are dedicated to the mission but also realize that these folks are just a different type of human being.
I agree with you. There is no end in sight for this conflict. Our military worked and fought amazingly with great courage but if this country still exists in the stone ages. Let them evolve on their own. If they start to breed terrorists that threaten us, destroy them. But it is time to stop trying to re-build this nation.
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You, sir, have provided me with an epiphany when you said “To [properly do nation-building] you must over-take the nation completely and rebuild from scratch.”
I’m not sure about the “from scratch” part, but certainly deep surgery is required. While I was reading your post it occurred to me that Great Britain managed to civilize India quite nicely. But then, back then General Sir Charles Napier could say things like
I may need to read up a bit on Sir Charles Napier. Hummm
That rant was right on those people don’t need any excuse to attack to kill americans. It’s about time to stop spending lives and money on nation building with an assbackwards country like that.Since World War Two we haven’t done anything but halfass everything we’ve attempted , if we aren’t commited 100% stay the hell out. I get so tired of all this (lets not hurt their feelings ) attitude,just makes me sick. Good job on your post.
Well JB , I see that you have stirred up something on your Blog , I think it is American Help for Country’s that do not want it. I have already said the A-Stan is not worth Our While because the Country is so corrupt. I know this will get a rebuttal from some one but This Country is not worth Dead American’s. We need to pull out all Free Personnel and let the Corruption take over again as it has for Centuries. There is NO winning such War. We have technology today that we can do Harm to the A-Holes from Drones and Save our Soldiers from the Grief. We used to be so Upset in Nam we would say To Hell with it…. Nuke the Bastards and let God Figure it OUT,,,,This is the same way I feel About this Country…
11th
I really thought the Irish Wisdom post would be the big one. lol
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I say its time to start using some of the ICBMS next time we are attacked, Hit every known terrorist camp and let them see what we can do! Why play games with american soldiers lives with them.
An excellent write-up, and I believe, very accurate as well. A friend of mine in SF who served in Afghanistan told me that basically these backward people are hopelessly stuck in barbarian mode, have been for centuries, and are simply beyond help. How do you help a country who’s people take pride in the posting of a video of a ten year old boy graphically and brutally beheading a man accused of being a “spy” for the U.S.? We need to leave Afghanistan, and most of the ME for that matter. And the next time one or more WMD’s are used against America by Islamic Terrorists, be they hijacked airliners against buildings, or some form of NBC weapon, we should respond in kind with our own WMD’s. If Kabul suffered the same fate as Hiroshima or Nagasaki, I honestly would not shed a tear.
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I always defer to the warriors! If they say it’s time to go…. it’s time to go.
The guy currently occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Av is a disgrace of a Commander in Chief and a laughingstock to those who serve!
God Bless those who serve for you truly are our best and brightest.
Love the comment from Sir Charles Napier.
Good post JB, it seems that you and I have posted very similar things in the past. Not really sure what spurred these great responses. The joker in the deck is the press. They are why nobody regardless of political affiliation can wage war correctly and completely. No General/Politician will take a chance with their careers to allow us to overwhelm an opposition the way that is necessary. Any smart opposition from now on has to only outlast our “political will”.
I am an american soldier, a veteran, and an inner city educator.
I believe that all lives are valuable, thus I choose to disagree with your premise that afghanis aren’t worth American lives. In fact, that basic belief of mine is what led me into the Army, and what keeps me in now after spending a decade, my entire adult life at war with ideologies and people that I find reprehensible.
I mentioned that I’m a teacher. I teach in one of the worst schools districts in America, we deal with dead students, siblings, and parents weekly at least. I have had guns pulled on me and parents threaten my life. People often say that my students are not worth it. In this environment, with that sort of support from their community, they never had a chance. Who’s fault is that? I know these children are worth it, and what’s more if we don’t intervene in their lives, they will continue to have children who are victims of the same environment.
In my career I have served in 13 different countries, and met refugees, militants, terrorists, politicians, poliecemen, children, and civilians from at least a dozen more I can think of. Each one has/had a chance. But if no one intervenes, their children will not, and we’ll still be reading the same headlines in our dotage while our children wrestle with the same problems.
But I do agree that we are not expressing the political will to succeed. So what do we do? Quit, or start expressing our own political will that we can be better and we’re committed to doing it?
Hopefully I didn’t wander too far afield in response.
Keep the dialogue alive
Regards
Wes I appreciate what you do.
Would I like to save all the innocents in the world? Yes. But we cannot save the entire world from themselves. As I suppose you know well we have our problems here at home.
We can encourage, we can promote ideas that we believe will help them but we can’t always fight their battles for them.
I don’t believe all lives are valuable. Some are much more valuable than others and some need to be completely removed from this earth. I don’t believe in Utopia. I don’t believe all people are basically good. I’ve seen the opposite.
Sometimes people need to earn your trust, your time, and your efforts. To ask the American public to support a war, the cause better be damn good, the people we support better appreciate it and we better have an end goal that makes sense and isn’t redefined every couple of months.
One of the main points of this post is the lack of buy in from our politicians and our populace. War isn’t something you begin with a, hey let’s try this out for a while mentality. But that is what we have. Now the President who claimed we needed out of Iraq, emphasis on Afghanistan, closure of Gitmo has gotten us into another conflict where no clear definition of victory are stated.
I value the American Soldier and the American taxpayer too much to just ignore the facts.
Can we win in Afghanistan? Sure. But we would need to stop apologizing, stop leaving doubt in our collective will to fight. The mixed messages need to stop and often extreme fear needs to be instilled in those that oppose us. They must believe in their hearts we will destroy them if they oppose us. Anything else will only prolong the problem creating more misery for those we claim we wish to help.
If not we should come home turn our resources 100% on our own people here.
It looks like we lost the war on grammar too.
lol, Well we all have priorities.
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Who dat , dat say we have no mo Gramer…..
11th
I mostly agree with that JB. Just came to different conclusions.
Wes, our foreign policy is a mess. What started out after 9/11 as retribution and a way to deny the terrorists training camps and safe havens, morphed into nation building. That’s where I have serious issue with our prosecution of the war. Anybody with a modicum of history and common sense knows that if an enemy knows that you’ll leave, all they have to do is change the color of their man dress until you leave. They don’t own a watch or a calendar. The press will eventually drive us out as they are more powerful with a pen than I am with a rifle. If there isn’t a story they will create one. So that being said, Wes, yes your life, JB’s and my life is more important than an impotent foreign policy.
Wes, tell us your conclusions. I don’t claim any all-knowing visions. I’m just calling it as I see it today. Show me your take on things. Discussion is how we evolve in our thinking.
A most excellent post, JB. I read your “about” and our politics are very similar.
It is time to get the hell out, and it pains me to say it since I spent time there, not as a combat troop, but as an AF NCO doing tactical radio work.
Leaving that God-forsaken place to whatever fate holds for it would not be a betrayal to anyone who died or was wounded there. We kicked the Taliban’s ass and then we tried to make a better life for the benighted inhabitants. Our fighting forces, especially the Army and the Marines, fought like the heroic lions they are. Nothing to be ashamed of.
The libertarian in me says that if I oppose big statist solutions here at home, how can I support them overseas?
That’s not to say all operations are in vain or wrong. Our troops are doing excellent work in the Philippines, because the Filipinos want us there and are doing the heavy lifting themselves. That is the very model of effective US assistance.
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